Free MIS Discovery Sessions for Schools, Academies & Trusts this September

On the back of a LOT of requests from schools, academies, partners and MATS, this September we were pleased to independently host a series of MIS Discovery Sessions.

With everything going on in the MIS market at the moment, schools have a real appetite for understanding all the MIS+Finance options available to them. They told us they’d like to take a look at all the MIS options available in England & Wales so this month we were pleased to host the three largest multi-phase, cloud-based school MIS+Finance suppliers: Bromcom, Arbor and IRIS Ed:gen.

Who were the Sessions for?

We hosted the MIS Discovery Sessions as virtual events which are completely free of charge to participate in and to attend. The sessions were open to all schools, MATs and academies in England and Wales, plus anyone else from the sector who’d like to find out more.

 

What did the Discovery Sessions cover?

We asked suppliers to talk about how their MIS meets the needs of key people within schools (including business managers, SLT, teaching staff, finance, students, governors, and parents) and asked them all the follow the same agenda to make it easier to compare.
But it wasn’t just about the software; we also asked suppliers to talk about their organisation and culture, and what it’s like to work with them – especially when it comes to switching MIS. There was plenty of Q&A throughout each day and the goal was to help everyone feel confident about the options open to them and the next steps.

I was unable to attend, can I access recordings and information now?

Yes, all the suppliers are happy to share the recordings plus more info on everything discussed in the sessions, just click on the links below:

 

Bromcom MIS Discovery Session

Arbor MIS Discovery Session

IRIS Ed:gen MIS Discovery Session

Thank you to all the suppliers who took part, and to all the participants who joined us in the sessions. We had over 240 people register across the three days and the feedback has been great.
We’re looking to run further sessions in the future – watch this space!

What’s going on in the MIS sector? The big talking points of 2022 and our predictions for 2023

The MIS sector in England continues to be in a state of flux and there are currently no signs of it settling down. Schools and MATs continue to switch suppliers, businesses and support teams are changing the way they operate, and new partnerships and being formed to enhance the value suppliers offer.

 

Is this a good thing for schools and MIS users? We certainly hope so, with change comes innovation, but I can see why MIS can feel like a pain in the backside as opposed to an opportunity to improve things for some schools and MATs.

 

Here are some of the big talking points in 2022 and our predictions for 2023

 

 

The challenges around ESS’ move to direct licencing and 3-year contracts continue

When ESS announced to all its schools that they required them to licence with them directly (as opposed to via an LA licence deal) and that all contracts would be for 3-years now as opposed to one, there was a great deal of pushback from schools culminating in a challenge from them and a subsequent investigation by the CMA.

 

ESS, having offered various incremental ‘break clauses’, is now proposing a ‘New Break Clause Offer’ which will allow some schools to apply to break their contract if they can provide ‘objective evidence of a clear intention to switch’. The application will then be assessed by an independent adjudicator. Whether or not the CMA feel this is fair and workable remains to be seen. At the time of writing, the investigation is still open but the decision is likely to be soon as the last CMA consultation period closed in December 2022.

 

Our predictions: given just how many schools are affected by the ESS decision to change their terms, it’s likely the CMA would have received many responses during the last consultation period – both from schools and suppliers alike. Is it realistic to ask schools to provide written evidence of conversations – that would have likely happened verbally – in order to be able to apply to move? Is the application process itself so complicated that it puts schools off and they simply stick with what they’ve got? All questions the CMA will be considering, but we can see this rumbling on into 2023.

(**UPDATE** on 10th Jan 2023, the CMA published its decision to accept commitments from ESS that enable certain schools (meaning those which had considered switching providers but concluded they did not have sufficient time to do so) to apply to an independent adjudicator for a 12-month break clause. If granted, the clause will allow them to exit their current three-year contract with ESS and choose an alternative provider, should they so wish. More details on our blog here, schools have until 10th Feb 2023 to make their application.)

 

 

The rate of churn in the market continues at an even higher rate than expected

The most recent census figures are out and show that, over the past year, 2,734 schools have moved away from SIMS to alternate MIS suppliers. It means they’ve lost 18% of their market share in one year, probably higher than anyone expected. It also means that lots of challenger MIS are gaining ground with Arbor and Bromcom being the big winners, and lots of other new and existing MIS suppliers continue to gain ground (I’d recommend checking out Josh Perry’s blog for a detailed breakdown of market share by supplier).

 

Our predictions: Is this likely to continue into 2023? Everything indicates that it will. The school census figures are a good indicator of what’s going on but they always give a slightly delayed view on the market; they tell us which MIS the school used to submit the census, but they don’t reflect any recent procurements or new contracts schools may have entered into (e.g. the recent West Sussex procurement).  In the face of an enforced 3-year contract, many SIMS schools scrambled to move to an alternate MIS and there are still migrations in progress. We know that more schools, academies and MATs also intend to test the market there but felt that they couldn’t run a fair and thorough procurement within a limited timeframe (we talk about this below).

 

The acceleration in churn we’re seeing is not just due to contract issues though. There is a real desire for new solutions which offer schools something different, and which better meets the needs of MATs.  Bromcom and Arbor have made significant gains, and the primary-focused cloud MIS (Scholarpack, RM Integris and Horizons/Pupil Asset) have held fairly steady.  There are also new players out there which schools are happily choosing to switch to. IRIS Ed:Gen was the next fastest grower, and Compass Education is already busy getting schools live here in the UK.  ET-AIMS and Go4Schools have new MIS offerings which are sparking interest, and Satchel recently announced that they intend to build an MIS too. There’s lots of potential for growth and a very high likelihood that we’ll see more churn.

 

 

What’s next for Support Teams

The role and nature of school support teams continue to evolve. As an LA team, only offering support for one MIS option feels more and more precarious as the level of churn amongst schools, academies and trusts increases each year. However, by and large, MATs, schools and academies often still want to buy into local support – they still want to work with the colleagues with which they’ve built such great relationships.  As a result, the number of support teams forming partnerships with MIS providers other than SIMS has increased drastically, and many now offer multi-MIS support. The progressive teams understand that the priority is helping their schools achieve their goals, and it’s something they plan to continue to do in the future – irrespective of the systems they use. They “support the process, not the product”.

 

Our predictions: unfortunately, those LA teams that only offer SIMS support to their schools are going to find it harder and harder in the future. LAs no longer hold a SIMS licence in perpetuity as was once the case as ESS mandates that all schools licence with them directly so LAs are no longer a route to a preferential SIMS licence deal. ESS is offering its own support contracts directly to SIMS schools at a favourable price so these teams may find that some of their schools won’t buy into their MIS SLAs at all. In addition, we’ve heard anecdotally that ESS plans to discontinue the annual entitlement rebate that has traditionally been available to LA teams in return for them supporting SIMS. For many, it may mean there is no longer a viable business.

(N.B. we have a new #FinnemoreFireside coming up with Catherine Tallis, Director Of Business Services at Herts for Learning Ltd where we discuss the challenges above – watch this space)

 

 

An increased focus on procurements

As indicated by the amount of churn, it’s clear there are likely to be more procurements underway than ever. Depending on the size of the school or trust, this can be a complex process involving stakeholders from across all areas of operations, teaching and leadership.  At any one time, an MIS supplier will also be responding to multiple tenders so we’d definitely encourage the use of a framework such as  G-cloud or Everything ICT. It helps the process run smoothly and helps guard against any legal challenges.

 

Our predictions: We anticipate school and MAT requirements becoming more high-level and strategic as it becomes clear what brand-new cloud-based MIS can help them achieve. While lots of requirements have tended to focus on functionality in the past (e.g. can you take a register, can you submit the census) these are things that all MIS can do. A decision which is made purely on basics and price rarely gets schools and Trusts what they need.

 

We’re starting to see Trusts ask more of MIS suppliers in terms of how they will help them meet their own overall strategy. For example:

 

  • How will the MIS help them meet Carbon net zero targets by 2030?
  • How will the MIS provide the insight on students we need to successfully run a national academy chain?
  • How does the MIS help us allocate budget to staff resources accordingly based on effective pedagogy?

 

Being a straight admin/office tool is not enough anymore, Trusts are looking for software partners with long-term benefits.

 

 

 

The desire for cloud solutions continues

There has always been a strong case for a school to move all its systems to the cloud, and this was brought into sharp focus by the pandemic.  Anytime, anywhere access became absolutely crucial as school staff were unable to gain physical access to buildings. Even when they could, many students were still attending school remotely so there had to be solutions in place to cope with remote learning – it caught a lot of people out and accelerated cloud strategy.

 

The argument around TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) is now more important than ever as, once again, schools find their budgets being shrunk so any way to save money has to be considered. Cloud solutions mean that schools don’t need to buy or house a server so there are all the associated power and air-con cost savings that go with it.

 

Carbon targets and a successful net zero strategy are also becoming a higher priority for schools as we head towards 2030, they want to waste as little energy as possible and the cloud helps them get there.

 

Our predictions: schools will of course want to move to the cloud where possible and all the MIS suppliers understand this. The fast-growing suppliers are cloud-based as you would expect, and ESS has a cloud strategy with its Next Gen solution planned for the future.

 

For schools and Trusts who find themselves with a client-based MIS for the foreseeable future, there are other options out there to help your cloud strategy. For example, suppliers can sometimes help with this directly, and school support teams such as Scomis offer SIMS hosting so you no longer need to buy and maintain servers.

 

 

 

 

Partnerships, mergers and acquisitions

There has been so much acquisition activity around MIS in recent years and this continued in 2022 with RM announcing the sale of the division that includes the Integris MIS to The Key Group. When the deal goes through, The Key will have around a 33% MIS market share in the English-maintained sector (across Arbor, Scholarpack and Integris) which makes them a huge player, second only to ESS SIMS which currently has around 56%.

Suppliers of MIS-adjacent solutions have also continued to form fruitful partnerships as it becomes clear that there’s not a ‘one-size-fits-all’ solution for schools and Trusts, and flexibility is everything.

 

Our predictions: We’re seeing increased merger, acquisition and partnership activity amongst support teams too. For example, it was recently announced that School ICT Services Ltd had been acquired by Oxfordshire-based provider of education ICT services, Turn IT On.

 

We’re also seeing more and more LA support teams working in partnership with each other in order to pool expertise and deliver valuable services to their schools. For the reasons outlined earlier in the blog, we see this sector in particular as one to watch as the nature of SIMS support teams changes.

 

 

 

So, all in all, an eventful year in the sector and we can see more change coming in the future. While it feels like a lot of battles are currently being fought around contracts and agreements, we’d really like to see what’s coming next in terms of innovation.  Who’s out there redefining the role MIS will play in schools in the face of changing requirements?

 

 

We’d love to hear what’s next and look forward to working with suppliers, schools, Trusts and support colleagues throughout 2023.

MIS market trends: How satisfied are schools with their current MIS, and what’s most important to them when it comes to looking at alternatives?

The number of schools switching MIS is at an all-time high and this trend looks set to continue (check out this previous blog for the reasons why and the movement we can expect to see in the future).

 

As schools are taking on new MIS all the time, it’s important for all suppliers of all school management software – be that the MIS itself or any one of the hundreds of products which sit alongside it – to understand what’s most important to schools when looking at alternatives.

 

 

In Spring 2021, The Key sent a survey to all primary, secondary, special schools and pupil referral units in England on the subject of MIS which produced some fascinating insights, including (amongst other things):

 

 

The Key sent out a similar survey in Spring 2022 so, using these results, we’ve been able to compare how opinions on MIS have changed and gain some insight into what schools might do in the future.

 

 

 

What it is that schools look for in a new MIS: what’s most important to them?

 

The surveys asked schools across England to prioritise what they felt was the most important factor in terms of price, support, functionality, integration, partnership and reputation when looking for a new supplier. The results are outlined below:

 

 

As you can see, the trend of what’s most important to schools is broadly unchanged but there are a couple of notable things here:

 

  • Even in a world of huge budgetary pressure on schools, price has not scored as highly as last year. It’s still the second most important factor, but it’s interesting to see that functionality has not only remained the most important factor by far, but the percentage has increased too.

 

  • Being a trusted procurement partner has become more important and has (only just!) overtaken reputation in terms of importance. This could well be a reflection of the way in which MATs prefer to work, as they often use trusted procurement partners to help select their school management software and technology. There are also a number of frameworks in place to help schools and MATs through the procurement process e.g. G-cloud, Everything ICT

 

 

 

How satisfied are schools with their MIS compared to last year?

 

In both 2021 and 2022, the survey asked respondents to rate how satisfied they were with their MIS, on a scale of 1-10 with 1 being extremely dissatisfied and 10 being extremely satisfied. This graph shows that there are actually fewer schools towards the ‘Extremely satisfied’ end of the chart, and more are rating their satisfaction at 5 or lower (You can find the full results plus analysis by supplier on The Key’s blog here).

 

 

What could be causing schools to report that they are less satisfied than last year? There are a few possible explanations:

 

  • Given so many schools have moved or are on the move at the moment, it’s likely that a number of respondents are in the MIS transition period which is always the most nerve-wracking time where the least satisfaction is felt.

 

  • It’s possible that schools are feeling unhappy with their existing supplier if the contract and support terms have changed as this often puts them under pressure.

 

But it may be that this is an accurate reflection of how schools are feeling about MIS in the current environment, in which case it’s all suppliers should take note!

 

Ultimately, if schools are citing functionality as the main thing they look for in a new MIS, how confident are MIS suppliers that their functionality is truly meeting the needs of schools? Aside from the basics, what makes one stand out from the other?

 

What do you think users are looking for in their MIS?

 

 

 

EP. 032 – Edtech Business Leader Q&A: Stephen Bilboe, CEO at WCBS

In this next #FinnemoreFireside chat we’re catching up once again with  Stephen Bilboe, CEO at WCBS. Our initial conversation was over a year ago back in March 2021 (you can watch the full interview here) and, since then, lots has changed – including the first schools going live with HUBmis.

 

Amongst other things, Stephen and I chatted about:

  • Why rebuilding works best when it comes to UI and UX
  • Taking schools on your journey with you when it comes to change
  • The value of offering pilots to schools
  • Recent changes in the MIS market, private equity investors, and what might happen next amongst the competitors
  • How the pandemic has affected what’s important to the independent and international education sectors
  • Lessons learnt from the release of HUBmis, and what’s next
  • WCBS academy, accreditation, and the benefits it brings to schools

 

Enjoy!

 

 

 

How intuitive are MIS solutions for new users?

What does it mean when we talk about MIS solutions being intuitive? The concept of something being ‘intuitive’ often gets mistaken for ‘basic’; there’s a belief that something is intuitive to use because it’s not rich functionally, but this is simply not the case. The smartphones we use today are some of the most sophisticated tech consumers have ever carried around – and they don’t come with instructions. We know how to use them because we’ve grown up with the more basic mobiles; one of the reasons we find them intuitive to use is because we learnt the old stuff the hard way!

Also, companies (in particular gaming companies) have identified ways to make it easy for us to use their systems using clever software such as WalkMe; the goal is to reduce friction and allow users to play games or use systems starting with the most basic flows, then introducing you to the more complicated features later.

 

It’s a similar story with MIS, but the idea that something will be hard to learn still holds people back when it comes to looking at alternatives – especially if their recollection of learning the existing system was painful.

It’s rarely the case though, and a good analogy here is that of learning to drive. You don’t have to re-take your driving test every time you get a new car.  You know how to drive already; you just need to find out what’s different in the new car and get used to using it.  It’s easy, and the new stuff is usually the best stuff (hello sat nav and park assist!)

It’s the same when you change your Management Information System.  You don’t need to go on lengthy training courses or re-learn from scratch. You know how to use an MIS already; you just need to find out what’s different in the new system and get used to using it.

 

A recent survey1 of 2,146 schools asked, amongst other things, how intuitive their MIS is for new users.  The pie chart below summarises the responses:

 

The vast majority of respondents (38.15%) fell into the satisfied category which is good to see, with a further 25.34% taking the middle ground saying they were neither satisfied nor dissatisfied. However, what’s surprising here is that over a quarter of respondents (25.39%) said they were either dissatisfied or extremely dissatisfied when asked how intuitive their MIS is for new users. It’s a worrying stat as no MIS supplier sets out to make a solution that’s prohibitively difficult to use.

 

According to the Interaction Design Foundation, members of the interdisciplinary research group Intuitive Use of User Interface offer the following definition of intuitive use:

 

“A technical system is—in a specific context of a user goal—intuitively usable to the degree the user is able to interact with it effectively by applying knowledge unconsciously.”

 

Based on this definition, there are a few reasons why respondents might not feel like their MIS is intuitive for new users:

  • If the MIS you use now is the MIS you’ve always used, it’s likely that you may not consider it to be intuitive as you remember your first learning curve.
  • Newer, SaaS MIS may be perceived as more intuitive as their users have used something previously so ‘know how to drive’ and won’t find it a challenge.
  • Equally, solutions based on more recent technology will likely be easier to work with as they don’t have the old legacy-system hang-ups of having to navigate out of one module and into another. It will undoubtedly be an easier and more seamless experience.
  • For brand new users, solutions built on more recent technology tend to require minimal training and are easier to learn. Older systems involved attending courses – which often made them all the more difficult to roll out to teaching staff given the time required.

 

The graph below shows a breakdown of the survey results for the ‘Big 5’ who, between them, they make up 96% of school market share2 (namely Arbor, Bromcom, RM Integris, ScholarPack and SIMS):

Ultimately, how intuitive an MIS solution is perceived to be is down to a combination of things:

  • How easy the solution is to access, and how quick it is to navigate
  • How confident the user is with technology as a whole?
  • How experienced the user is with MIS and the concepts of records, data dependencies and analysis
  • How the user was introduced to the solution in the first place. For example:
    • Did they start the role when it was already in place, so they ‘had’ to use it? If so, what sort of intro did they have to the system?
    • Were they part of a team where the school started using a system for the first time? If so, what was their introduction to the MIS like?
  • How well supported they are throughout, and the source of the support (local team, colleagues, provider, someone else?)

 

But most importantly of all, the concept of a solution being intuitive or not comes down to how well the product managers, designers and developers know their users, and how much time they spend listening and understanding.

The point is MIS users already know how to use intuitive software.  If they don’t have a basic understanding of how to use the MIS software by playing around with it for a few minutes then, as an MIS supplier, you’ve sadly missed the mark.  But if you work alongside your users on what’s important to them (and avoid the pitfall of developing something clever and technical just because you can), you can deliver a solution that users can take to without having to hesitate and wonder how they can execute an action.

 

 

 

1The data was collected by The Key from a survey that went out to all primary, secondary, special schools and pupil referral units in England, by email. It was not sent to independent schools. The survey was completed by Headteachers, Deputy and Assistant Heads, and School Business Managers / Leaders between 29 March and 27 April 2021.

As part of the survey, respondents were asked which MIS they use. The results are outlined below:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2Market share statistics are sourced from two excellent blogs: Graham Reed’s Omega Pegasus https://www.omegapegasus.com/mischallenge and Josh Perry’s Bring More Data https://bringmoredata.blogspot.com/

 

 

 

EP. 016 – Edtech Business Leader Q&A: Stephen Bilboe, WCBS

The next in our series of Business Leader Q&A sessions is with Stephen Bilboe, Sales & Marketing Director at WCBS.

Founded in 1984, WCBS specialises in providing integrated management systems to Independent & International schools across three main areas: Admissions, MIS & Finance.  They’ve recently invested heavily in delivering next generation, cloud native systems that use the latest technology to achieve a much better user experience for Independent and International Schools.  This culminated in the launch of HUBmis in October 2020.

Stephen and I chatted about WCBS and the many changes happening in the MIS sector, including:

  • Your focus is very much within the Independent and international schools market, do you see yourself ever moving into the maintained market?
  • What makes you different from other Independent MIS solutions?
    Have you found the Covid situation has impacted your business, do you see yourselves working differently going forward?
  • As an MIS business, what is going to be important to you over the next 2-3 years to continue to grow?
  • What’s next for WCBS?
We’ve split the interview into two parts to make it easier to digest. Enjoy!

 

EP. 003 – What makes Arbor different to other MIS suppliers? Business Leader Q&A with Arbor CEO, James Weatherill

The next in our series of Q&As with edtech business leaders is with James Weatherill, CEO of Arbor Education.

Since their inception in 2011, Arbor has established themselves in the MIS market with their cloud MIS and analytical insights.

In this interview, Nick and James discuss the driving force behind Arbor, what makes it unique, the huge role support teams play in the MIS market and predictions for the future.

We’ve split it into three parts to make it easy to digest.  Enjoy!

 

 

 

 

 

Is the sale of SIMS by Capita a good thing for the market?

Is the sale of SIMS by Capita a good thing for the market?

 

 

“I have now spoken to a number of people inside and outside of the MIS space, and everyone is asking the same thing: do I think the sale of SIMS by Capita is a good thing for the market?

My answer on the whole is yes.

Capita, for a number of years, have been good custodians of SIMS and you can see this in the success it had for so long.  However, their market share has undoubtedly started to decline in recent years.

But SIMS can be rejuvenated with a new owner that understands how the education market works and allows SIMS to make decisions that are in the best of its customers.  I really do hope that educationalists are part of the board and the decision making process.

My understanding is that SIMS Primary is almost ready. It may not meet everyone’s needs 100% right away but it’s important it is released in order to gain feedback and improve.

SIMS Secondary is being built in a way that slowly allows schools to engage with it on a module by module basis. For example, SIMS Options is a SIMS Secondary cloud solution and Exams is due to follow, so secondary schools will be using SIMS8 with a SIMS7 core initially.

There’s lots of opportunity for SIMS under a new owner, but the MIS market is now more competitive than ever. It will be interesting to see what happens!”

 

Author: Nick Finnemore, Director

 

EP. 002 – Business Leader Q&A: Ali Guryel of Bromcom Computers Plc

Next in our series of Q&As with edtech thought leaders is Ali Guryel of Bromcom.

As the Chairman and Managing Director of Bromcom Computers Plc, Ali is responsible for the strategic development of the company products and markets.

Check out Nick and Ali’s virtual get together below.  Here Ali talks about why he believes schools and academies need a one-stop-shop, and what differentiates Bromcom from the other MIS suppliers out there.

We’ve split the full interview into parts to make it a bit easier to digest. Enjoy!

 

 

 

 

The real impact on TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) when you move to a cloud-based MIS

If you’re thinking of moving to one of the cloud-based MIS in the market, the concept of TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) will definitely be on your mind. If not, the cloud suppliers will certainly be making a big point about it. But what’s the real effect on TCO when you make the move?

What does TCO mean?

For a start, it’s worth defining exactly what TCO is so we understand what we’re dealing with. The Investopedia’s definition is:

“The total cost of ownership (TCO) is the purchase price of an asset plus the costs of operation. Assessing the total cost of ownership represents taking a bigger picture look at what the product is and what its value is over time.”

This means that, to understand the TCO of your existing non-cloud based MIS you need to add together the annual software costs, the hardware and networks costs and any training, professional services and hardware support costs.  You also need to take into account the actual time it takes your staff to operate it as a client-based solutions (we’re not talking day-to-day users here, we’re talking running updates and that sort of thing).

Now you have a baseline you can start looking at how moving to a cloud-based MIS will look for you.

 

Maintaining hardware

Let’s look at the physical environment first. Cloud-based MIS means you have zero need for a server. You just need devices that are able to access the internet using whatever browser that MIS requires. All the decent MIS providers support all the main ones so you will likely already have devices in your school.  The human cost of maintaining servers is also reduced so your IT staff will be free to work on other things.

(As an aside, it’s also worth talking about the fact that, if you go completely cloud-based as a school for all systems, there is a huge energy saving to be had. You’re not running servers in special rooms with aircon so there are massive financial and economical advantages! If you want to understand how much you could save drop us a line as we can point you in the direction of a couple of great companies who can help with this).

 

Buying your MIS

Cloud-based MIS means you’re also moving to a SaaS model of buying your MIS. SaaS means Subscription-as-a-Service; you’re not having to pay out huge amounts at the beginning for licences, you simply sign a contract for the number of months/years you want it for. A bit like Netflix or a gym membership.

But moving to a new MIS always has a cost associated as you’re ultimately asking people to start using a brand new system they’re unfamiliar with.  You’ll need to factor in training time and costs.

The thing is, your staff may not know the new cloud MIS inside out but they do know MIS!  They just need to find out what’s different in the new system and get used to using it. And the big benefit about tech moving on and cloud-based systems is that they are much more intuitive and easier to use than learning legacy systems.

Overall, the TCO of moving to cloud MIS always reduces and there are lots of schools, academies and MATs out there who will testify to the cost saving.

I think what’s really overlooked is how much you gain. The flexibility of being able to access everything everywhere and the IT/admin workload you take away from staff frees them up to be able to do much, much more for you school.

Just think about it, how many systems do you know of that are not in the cloud?